They say, “Never forget where you came from.” For me, West Virginia is responsible for the very best of me – my humility, my empathy, my pragmatism and maybe my self-reproach.
It was 1989 when Marvin Bressler, my advisor, said to me, “Well, you’ve done it.” I thought we were embarking on a congratulatory conversation about my defending my senior thesis. We were not. He continued, “You will forever live with one foot firmly planted in the world that shaped you in West Virginia and one foot stretching as far as it can to plant itself in the world at large. What you will make of that challenge is up to you.”
Before I had any idea of the depth of his insight, I could feel the tension he predicted in my future. The die was cast – create meaning, serve others, and let the weight of where you are from be your compass. Don’t get me wrong. When I travel, I yearn for those country roads to take me home. I also wonder if it’s time to stretch beyond. At 58, I sometimes ask, have I stayed home too long?
Sarah
I don’t have any feelings of regret for being back here. I think probably because I’m here, I was able to achieve things more quickly than I would have been if I was someplace else. And there’s just a lot of work to do here. There’s a lot of work. And so I enjoy doing the work.
Liz
One of my college roommates told me 10 years ago “You could do what you’re doing anywhere, but nowhere needs you as much as where you are.” And I like that.
Sarah
Yeah, it’s fair. It’s true.
Liz
What do you mean?
Sarah
Well, there just aren’t that many people that stay. So many people move out, particularly the people with big ideas.
Liz
What was your big idea?
Sarah
For here? Oh, I have lots of them. Free community college – that passed. We got dual enrollment passed. So for the first time, students in West Virginia can take college classes for free when they’re still in high school. Right now, we’re redesigning financial aid. We have 15 different financial aid programs for students, which means they have 15 different applications and 15 different sets of rules that they have to follow. It doesn’t make any sense. So we’re just going to flatten it and we’re trying to figure out how to do that – how to get kids access to post-secondary education. We just got written up in an article for increasing our FAFSA completion numbers pretty dramatically… that’s all the work that the folks in my office are doing to try to get kids to really think about what comes next for them. And we do a lot of that.
This is the voice of Dr. Sarah Tucker, Chancellor of the WV Higher Education Policy Commission. This is also the adult voice of one of my favorite students from my early career as an English teacher at The Linsly School. She and her best friend, Chrissy Hoag, were a touchstone of creative and critical thinking even when they were juniors in high school. Today we are fortunate that Sarah is channeling that same intellectual curiosity and innovative spirit into transforming higher education policy and serving the students in West Virginia.
Liz
But finance is only one hurdle. When I went to the WV Higher Ed Summit sponsored by you, I was shocked to hear transportation was such a hurdle in West Virginia.
Sarah
Transportation is a big issue. Food insecurity is a big issue. We’ve been able to get food banks at each of the institutions, so that’s helpful. But it’s more than just food. It’s the things that you need in your everyday life. I’m always amazed when I go to a food bank and I hear that they need things like feminine hygiene products. There’s a lot of unmet need for our students that we have to try to meet.
Liz
That’s fascinating. Here you are, Chancellor of Higher Ed, and you have to think as much about food insecurity as you do education.
Sarah
Every year, there’s a bill that goes up, sponsored by students. It’s happened for the past four or five years about food insecurity. Fails every year.
At that summit I had the opportunity to sit with a high school guidance counselor from southern West Virginia who explained that finances and transportation had a third deterrent affecting matriculation in post secondary education: families.
Liz
Truly the obstacle was grandparents and parents who didn’t want students to leave them. They needed them for basic care, which continues the generational poverty.
Sarah
And we had that a lot during COVID. Kids were able to work different types of jobs than they were before. A lot of kids ended up making money for their family that sustained the family. A lot of kids dropped out of college for that very reason.
But that’s why I was so vocal last year when we had the FAFSA debacle at the federal level. I lost my mind because we had been doing so much work to get kids in school.
If you’re living with your grandparents, but your grandparents haven’t taken legal custody of you, or you don’t know where your parents are…you’re out of luck. And that’s really hard. It’s a really hard thing to face. I was meeting with students several years ago, and six kids came up to me. They were waiting in line to talk to me at the end. I’ll never forget it. And they were like, “Can we talk to you about Promise?” And I said, “Sure. What’s up?” Every one of them was living in some situation other than with their parents. All six of them qualified for the Promise [scholarship which provides free tuition]. None of them could get it because they didn’t fill out their FAFSA. And I said, “I’m going to fix this.” And they said, “What do you mean?” I replied, “I’m going to fix it. Let me go back and talk to my staff. I’ll figure it out.” And I went back and asked my staff, and they were like, “Oh, yeah, this happens all the time.” … “Not anymore.”
It was close to the legislative session, and I went and explained to them what was going on, so they passed a law that lets us waive that parental requirement under certain circumstances. And so we were able to waive it for those kids and any others like them so they can get the Promise. It’s crazy what happens with financial aid.
Liz
It’s also crazy that you have been doing this so well and for so many years that you have the power that you have in order to do what you just did, to go to lawmakers, be able to tell them a story on behalf of six kids, even though it’s representative of more, and get something done quickly.
Sarah
There’s a lot of trust there that’s taken a long time to build up. It wasn’t there immediately, but I tell the truth and do what I say I’m going to do. And if you do that enough times, they trust you. You can get things done faster.
Liz
So what are the characteristics that have made you a good leader for education in West Virginia?
Sarah
Oh, gosh. I don’t know.
Liz
Clearly trust.
Sarah
Trust is a big one. I have a really good team of people. I have really, really smart people, and they’re really dedicated to this mission, and they will always figure out a way to make it work. And that’s huge because lots of people hold the belief about state government that you have a bunch of bureaucrats who just say, No, no, no, no, no, And that’s the opposite of the way my office works. They do everything they can to say yes and try to figure out how to make things happen for our students. I always talk about “we” because I can’t do it without them. We also don’t take a situation for granted, right? If something is a problem, we don’t just go, “Oh, that’s a problem. Yep, that’s a problem.” We make it not a problem anymore. We fix the problem. And I’m with a big crew of people who are fixers, and that’s really nice. It’s really nice to have people with that mentality. Try to make things better.
There is no doubt that a leader is stronger with a supportive team. Indeed, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. And yet, at the end of the day, even with a strong team surrounding her, Sarah must take to the podium alone as the female face of Higher Education in West Virginia. She is one of the few women who have attained her level of authority in our state or in the industry.
Liz
So I’ve paid a lot of attention to the idea that one or two women in a room are still treated with some token mentality that it takes three for a tipping point.
Sarah: That’s interesting.
Liz: Have you experienced that at all?
Sarah
I have certainly experienced my fair share of misogyny, but for the most part, when I’m in a room, I’m taken seriously. It was not always like that. And there are times when that is not the case. But for the most part, now, if I say something, they know I mean it.
Liz
Which circles back to trust. You weren’t taken seriously partially because you were new?
Sarah
Partially because I was new, partially because I was young. I remember telling my boss at the time, I would go in to testify in front of the legislature, and they would call me “Honey” and they would call my male counterparts, who did not have PhDs, “Doctor,” but I had mine. I was like, “This isn’t cool. I’m not okay with this.” That doesn’t happen anymore. But it did for a while.
Liz
Now it’s Dr. Tucker.
Sarah
Yes.
Liz
Isn’t that amazing? I come from a generation where the women older than I had to work very, very hard to even shove their foot in the door to make sure there was some access. And my generation thought we had arrived because we got a woman in the room. But what I’m paying attention to is a single or two women in the room really wasn’t the change. So we still have a responsibility to the next generation not to go quietly into the good night, but to use our voices and be loud and pull that third and fourth woman into the room. And it’s hard.
Sarah
It is hard. It’s interesting because there’s an organization for my position. They’re called SHEEO’S, State Higher Education Executive Officers.
Liz
God, if everything in education doesn’t have a…
Sarah
An acronym …you’re right they all do. I think there might be five of us.
Five women. One just retired, so I’m not sure where that leaves us, but we have an affinity group every time we meet. And it’s just so startling how few women there are. We have this big lunch, and we can all sit around one single folding table.
Liz
Wait, tell me you get a folding table because you’re women?
Sarah
Well, a nice round folding table. A banquet table. But it’s crazy to me. And we talk about how to get more women into these roles.
Liz
Do you ever walk into one of those rooms and wonder why you’re there?
Sarah
I used to. I really don’t anymore. But I absolutely get nervous. I have very specific ways that I hold a lectern before I talk so that I don’t shake. But I don’t get worried about imposter syndrome anymore. I used to. God, it was awful. I used to have horrible imposter syndrome.
Liz
Even with an Ivy League undergrad and a doctorate… a PhD after your name?
Sarah
Yeah, I was always convinced I was going to be found out. Always. I don’t know when it switched, to be honest.
Liz
Me too.
Sarah
You feel the same way?
Liz
My whole life, I did. I’ll be honest with you, Sarah, it switched. I left a job where people trusted me and I did well, and it came back.
Sarah: Oh, no.
Liz: Yeah. And it has taken a lot of this year to put it down again. The best thing I can say is I don’t walk into a room afraid anymore. But when I started these walks, just these walks, for example, I was afraid to walk with the first head of school that wasn’t a friend. Who am I to be asking questions? Ashley Battle called them reps. I think the reps are what slowly puts the imposter syndrome baggage down. The times somebody says, Who do you think you are? Or You made this bed, so lie in it. It no longer hurts. No effect. It’s just, okay, that’s just your opinion. That’s not who I am.
There are negative voices in our heads that amplify the imposter syndrome. There are also times when you hear the words come out of someone else’s mouth, “You deserved what you got”… “You’re not who I thought you were”… with practice you can hear them without allowing them to land on your spirit. You can remember them with a more positive intonation. I did get what I deserved because I worked hard to learn from the lessons in this life. I am not who you thought I was because your thoughts about me have no impact on who I truly am. With those kinds of reps, the imposter facade falls away.
Liz But I can’t tell you that it’s gone for good.
Sarah
That’s scary. I want it to be gone for good.
Liz
So in a lot of these early walks, there was a clear theme of imposter syndrome, and then Luke noticed it dropped away. I wonder if it’s because it dropped away for me.
Sarah: I bet it is.
Liz: I wasn’t hearing it the same way.
It’s easy to lose sight of what truly sustains us. I’ve watched too many people, myself included, get trapped in the exhausting cycle of trying to overcome imposter syndrome at work, staying late to prove we belong, checking emails during family dinners, and missing bedtime because we’re convinced we need to do more to be enough. The cruel irony? All that extra time spent trying to feel competent or more deserving leaves us feeling like we’re failing everywhere—mediocre at the office and absent at home. Whether it’s choosing to stay home for your kid’s soccer game instead of attending that networking event, or simply putting your phone down during dinner to really listen, these small acts of prioritization create the foundation for life itself… and from what I’ve learned create the safety net that catches you when life gets messy.
Sarah
The other thing that served me well is my family.
I mean, people thought it was crazy when I had Oliver. They were like, how can you be with a toddler? And the thing is, when I come home, he needs all my attention. And so I can put [work] away. I can’t always. I mean, during the legislative session I spend every night on the phone. But for the most part, I have to put it away, and I have to pay attention to him, and play soccer, or baseball, or listen to, I don’t know, 18,000 different versions of Pokémon cards.
Liz
But it sounds like you have a really good balance. I like that you said Oliver demands you, so you put it away. I assume it wasn’t like that before Oliver.
Sarah
No, it was 24 hours a day. It can’t be now. And that’s nice I’ve been super proud of him this year. This spring said that he wanted to pick his own extracurriculars. So he picked musical theater and baseball. And I knew he would be okay with musical theater, but I was convinced that he would hate baseball because he doesn’t like having all the pressure on him. And I thought being up at bat would be too much. Damned if he hasn’t hit the ball every single time he’s gone up to bat. Every time. Every time.
Sarah relishes the details in her family’s life. She learned that lesson before she ever had a family of her own.
He’s got a busy little passport. And he loves seeing new cultures and telling us how they’re different from what he knows and what he experiences. Very upset in Italy, but they don’t have playgrounds. No playgrounds in the whole country.
Liz
Only a child could see that.
Sarah
Yes. He asked me if we could write a letter to the President and ask the President to send them playgrounds.
Liz
And the only answer to that is yes. Yes, of course. I love that even with the job that you have and the responsibilities that are so great, I can only imagine that when Ollie wants to sit down and compare cultures, you sit right down at the table with him with the same level of attention that you would give the governor if he called.
Sarah
I’d probably give him more attention. I mean, the truth is, my mom died when she was 52. I’m almost there. Right?
Liz
Right. So you think that piece of your own history has made you better able to attend to your family.
Sarah
I know it has.
Liz
Can you say more about that?
Sarah
I am very protective of them, and I’m very protective of my time with them. I will not let things interfere with it, just because who knows? And so I make sure that we always go to bed saying, I love you. It’s cliché, but it’s not. And that we take time. I pick him up every day from school or try to.
Liz
That’s a gift.
Sarah
Just try to be there. And part of being in West Virginia is that it’s easier to do that here. I think people may understand it a little bit better than if I were in DC.
Liz
“It” being the balance?
Sarah
Yes. And the importance of family. I think people really understand how important family is in this state and honor it when you say, “I’ve got to do this thing.” One of my points of pride is that I have had multiple men say to me at some point, “You know I’m okay saying that I can’t do this because I got to go to my kids’ thing because you do it.”
Liz
The speaker at [Virginia Tech’s] commencement was in charge of car racing for Toyota, and he’s talking to a room full of engineers. So he’s the coolest dude in the room, right? But he mentions, I missed a lot of birthdays. I haven’t been back for a reunion. You could hear the note of regret. And then he said, “Trophy’s rust.” I thought to myself, but can these 23-year-olds really hear that message? Because I remember Jim Squibb telling me, I don’t need you to direct the school play. And my thinking, I can do it all. And I wasn’t ready yet to understand that I was off balance. That’s the best way to put it. So I no longer say “I have to work.” I say “I have to write.” So when Ella comes home from school, I now say I have to write because for so many years, my kids heard me say I have to work as if that was more important than them.
Sarah
Yeah.
Liz
As if work was an acceptable “out.” And I’m so sorry I ever used that language. I did learn it fairly. I did learn it from my dad, but I’m so sorry that I used it.
Sarah
I get upset sometimes. I’ll find myself if I’ve picked Oliver up from school, and I get a phone call in the car, and he doesn’t get to finish telling me about his day. Once I get off the phone, I kick myself for like, Come on, really? That person could have waited. He just wanted to tell you about his day.
She gets it as if she has already been a parent for an entire lifetime.
Liz
So with your mom dying when you guys were so young and being the older sister, did you have to do any parenting? Or did you do any parenting? I’m not saying anyone made you.
Sarah
Yeah, I did parenting. I did parenting with my dad at the time. I think we all did, right? I mean, it was so shocking. I mean, it shouldn’t have been. It was cancer. It’s not like it snuck up on us. But it just changed everything.
Liz
Everything.
Sarah
Everything.
Liz
Do you talk to her?
Sarah
Sometimes. At the beach.
Liz
Was that your place with her?
Sarah: Yeah. Look, you got me crying, Liz.
Liz: I’m sorry. I don’t know, Sarah. I miss my mom every day. I can’t imagine if I had to start missing her at …
Sarah
24.
I cannot even imagine. I miss my mom everyday. Every. Day. It overwhelms me sometimes. I want to talk to my mom again. Walk with her and ask, “What should I do? Am I getting it all wrong?” She would probably just ask a question back, “Who is to say?” And then add, “And why does their opinion matter in your life?” Like it or not we grew up with definitions of good mom, good woman, good girl. I am still trying to put that down.
Liz
There’s a big piece of the definition of good girl that is being successful.
Sarah
That’s tied up with money.
Liz
That’s tied up with financial success, job title. And I’m really trying to put it away. And you asked me a question that I don’t even think you know how it landed. We were chit-chatting about what I was going to do, and you said, “Do you even want that job?” And I hear your voice every time I get ready for a job interview. And the truth is, I have applied for a few jobs that no, that’s not what’s right for me. But it’s the title, it’s the compensation,
And if I’m being honest…
Liz: It’s the response, “Oh, of course she left Country Day. Look at what she’s doing now.” And, wow, none of that is the reason to do something with your life.
And why would what someone else thought matter anyway?
Sarah
I just can’t imagine spending as much time as you have to spend with your work, spending it doing something that I don’t believe in or that I don’t care about. And it’s time away from Oliver. To me, at this point, it’s all relative to Oliver. Is it worth me not being with him? Is it worth me not hearing him giggle? Is it worth me not getting to go to the beach with him? Is it worth not sitting on the front porch? If it is, then I do it. If it’s not, then I don’t.
And I struggle with that sometimes, Liz, because at some point, there’s going to be a next step. And what is going to excite me enough to make me be okay with being away from him?
Liz
It’s interesting. I’ve been thinking a lot about there’s a July 1 coming for all of us that live fiscal years. There’s a July 1 coming with some year attached to it that you are no longer responsible for Higher Ed in West Virginia. And what will that transition be like for you? Because I love the years that I dedicated to the work that I did. But on July 1, there was someone else, and it just ended. We talk so much about the way we launch people into careers and so little about the landing, so little about what it’s like to stop doing the thing that you poured yourself into.
Sarah
I think that’s a lot of why my dad lives with us, right? He was like, What am I supposed to do?
Liz
Yeah.
Sarah
But it’s a really fair point. I have spent a lot of time setting up my office so that when I’m gone, and again, I’m not planning on leaving anytime soon, but so that when I’m gone, they’re okay. Because that wasn’t done before.
Liz
But the truth is, you don’t know that.
Sarah
I don’t know that, but I’ve gotten us involved in enough things with enough different groups of people, enough different organizations, that the relationships are there, not just for me. They’re not Sarah Tucker’s relationships. And it’s important to me that the office functions, whether I’m there tomorrow or I get hit by a bus tomorrow.
Liz
Shit, that’s exactly what I used to say all the time.
Sometimes putting family first requires us to make the hard choices. When we decide to step off the path we have been following—relinquish a position … sell the house … file for divorce … we get to decide what path comes next. For us. Not what comes next on that old path, not what others expect, not what looks good on paper. The beauty of these pivotal moments is that they hand us back our agency…and remind us of our limits.
The path forward might be uncertain, might require starting over, might mean disappointing people who liked the old version of your life. But when you make a choice for your family’s wellbeing and your own authentic purpose and joy —you’re coming home to yourself.
Sarah
But I haven’t thought a lot about what’s next for me.
Not your typical researcher or consultant, Liz connects lived experience to transformative leadership. To uncomplicate leadership and education, every story matters and she is just getting started.
